Wrassle Discussion

Fats:

Personally, I do not see any merger happening without Maverick being on board, and I know I certainly wouldn't want it any other way. I have always held Maverick in high regard and as a major influence to me in this game. And I strongly regret what went down between us when he left. I have since apologized although I can never take it back or pretend it never happened. I can only say I am sorry and hope we can move on from there. I believe strides have been made to move on when we had our conversation.

However, I don't get the impression from his reply here or his reply over at Wrassle that his stance on this is personal towards myself or Burnt. We would definitely want him on board if any merger were to take place.

I edited this to make it correct. Sounds really bad when I left out the "OUT" after the word "with" in the first sentence

Maverick:

While It's nice to see that you guys care what I think.....This issue isn't about me and my own personal thoughts on the subject. "Should we stay or should we go" isn't a question that should be answered with "Well, What's Mav plan on doing."

Thus despite my desire to want nothing to do with taking Fed X to Wrassle.....My loyalty stays where it has always stayed, With my friend Jeff, and you guys....the players.

As for Why I don't want to go back to Wrassle....Well....besides relisting Jeff's Con list.....Here are my other reasons.

Philly is correct, this is not personal for me as it relates to him or Burnt. I just want that clear.

1. We have worked, or moreso Jeff (with a little help from me, and constant help from guys like Eric, Mike, Randy, Geno, and others) has broke his back buidling Fed X to what it is today. I am extremely proud of what we have here and I see no reason to move.

2. Thier sim Vs Our sim. While the ATM isn't being used much..(Or so I've read)..it's still be used. How long will it take before it takes someone to decide "hey....these Fed X guys are good and I need a leg up to get a win?" As long as the ATM exists....as long as "stats" can be boosted by paying rather then playing....I'd rather steer clear of what can quickly become yet another disaster. Also, I love knowing that how I do on the sim relates to how much effort I make to post. I'm rewarded for busting my ass. Not so on thier sim. To me, the rewards we recieve on our sim for working hard is the heart of what makes Fed X so special and different. (Well...You...the players are the real heart but you know what I mean.). This is one MAJOR reason why I'm not even going to consider throwing in the towel and heading over there.

3. I'm going to be brutally honest. My personal feeling is this. When we left, I believe the EC and even Burnt himself felt like...."meh, let them go, we'll be alright without them." Turns out that wasn't the case. While some will say the reason for the decline is the decline in the sport of wrestling....I would disagree pointing out that RAW is still one of the top rated shows on Cable....and WWE Toys are still top sellers. I believe our split started the ball rolling. I feel like now, this "Offer" is being extended in an attempt to save Thier game. again, I could be WAY offbase...but I'm just being honest.

There are other issues I have about why I want to remain seperate from Wrassle and continue being our own entity but I lack the diplomacy that Jeff has to say it without coming off sounding hostile or something. Not that it would be but I have not nor will I ever be good at beating around a bush. Needless to say They can be discussed later if needed.

That said, I am in favor of the two sites working together and trading talent. I believe FED X showing up at wrassle events might bolster activity like wrassle people showing up for Fed X would help us. I also believe it adds to more a sense of realism for players. Imagine someone posting "tonight I'm in Hartford but Tuesday I fly down to Tampa for a Wrassle show....and I'm going to Kick ass!" If you want to be internationally known you have to travel and work right? (I stole this from Jeff....who pointed this out to me last night....so yeah...I stole it....*shifty eyes*)

I think working with each other instead of acting like we don't exist would be very helpful for both sites and a very good starting off point.

after all....if Israel ever made peace with the rest of the middle East I'm sure it wouldn't kick off with a BBQ in Jerusalem and hugfest......(and I'm NOT "huggin it out" with Philly. Have you seen the amount of fat hanging off his arms? Eww!)

Grayson:

For the record,

With Philly rounding out the offer and making it more clear than I was capable of, I have to say that it is a very good offer. It doesn't necessarily change my opinion of what we should do, but I think any players with any 'suspicions' about the 'how or why' of this offer need to look at it and see it for what it is; an excellent offer that we can take advantage of if we want to.

But we're not in a race to make a decision, and I think we need to continue to discuss this.

I don't think anyone's voice is too small, or less significant, and I'd like to hear from everyone.

Eve Riley:

Having thought about this pretty much all day, here are my two cents.

Personally, I like the direction Fed X is taking so far as content, vision, plans for expansion of the game-play experience, etc. I know not everything that has been discussed has materialized yet, but I think they are most definitely worth the wait.

For me, it's not nearly as much about trust as it is freedom to pursue the improvements Jeff has planned. The only thing that would make me really consider a move back to Wrassle seriously would be assurances those improvements would be seriously discussed and implemented if at all possible. I was out of Wrassle for family issues during the events that led to this incarnation of Fed X, so those things don't weigh so much into my thinking. Yes, I've had a couple of unfortunate incidents there which helped me make the original decision to move here, but my thinking on this particular issue is much less about trust and much more about vision, plans for game enhancements, etc.

That said, I would LOVE for the two places to be more interactive. Some of you know how many hours a few of us have spent over the last two years trying to put together joint events with Wrassle, most notably the annual King of Wrestling tournament. I am all in favor of pursuing more joint events, both here and there.

Doc Kiebler:

Is there technically any reason why you guys just couldn't use your sim even if you did go to Wrassle?

I doubt Fats & Burnt are saying you have to use Wrassle's sim.
I'm ignorant about the tech you've got running in the background here, but if I remember right, your sim is currently hosted on a different site so nothing really changes on that account.
The only thing Fed X players would be missing out on is seeing their names in that top ten wrasslers list on the front page, and who really gives a shit about that?

I like that you guys have a sim that takes activity into account and that you're actually making the effort to improve it (something that Wrassle's Sim is loooooong overdue for).
If anything would hold me back from wanting to move it would be abandoning it.

Additionally, since Fed X and Wrassle will never compete in any Sim events, it really shouldn't be an issue if you used your own sim.

The main benefits that I see of moving are access to the forums & more importantly the News Board and the convenience of being able to easily view each others RP posts.

VonBraun:

The most evil man alive (that doesn't work for Freeforums), just made a really interesting point.

Being on WDN and running RP isn't much different than being here. (Other than we have to pay to post pictures).

I still like the idea of everything housed in one site, though. Jeff's Engine and are RP all in once place would be convenient.

Fats:

I never thought about what Kiebler said but in all honesty, its very possible. I haven't discussed it with Burnt but I do not see a problem with FedX using their engine for their sim.

If this is done, I would still like to have myself and Grayson sit down with Icehawg and discuss some of the changes wanted with the Wrassle engine, which we all can agree is long overdue. I know Jeff has a friend working on the coding for him. He has admitted his coder isnt as accomplished as Icehawg and if we come up with a clear cut plan on where we want to take Wrassles engine, it would make its way from the back burner to the front. If its done this way, and you use your own engine, hopefully this will work to bring you guys to sim your matches over here.

We are serious about this offer. We want to try to make it work for BOTH of us.

Also, I see some of you have concerns about having your avatars in Wrassle, and questions about extreme membership.

I will be honest, this is something myself and Burnt haven't spoken about. But I will discuss this with him in the near future and get to you on this. I am not sure if free extreme memberships for the Avatars will fly but since you will be considered an Indy Fed free to run your fed by your own rules, I can see allow you guys to post pictures in you posts. Thats something I will discuss with Burnt.

I will also discuss with Burnt the option of getting rid of the ATM if noone is using it any more. I know Maverick had the concern about WHAT IF Wrassle guys are getting their buts kicked by FedX guys and wanting to use the engine to get a leg up on them. That wouldnt be an issue since FedX and Wrassle wont be competing in Sim-Based Events together. If Wrassle guys are getting thier asses kicked by FedX guys, it will be with RP and the ATM won't do a damn thing for them. They will just need to step up their game or continue to get their asses kicked.

Genocide:

Would there be anything in place to make sure that Wrassle can't close Fed X down on a whim?

As far as the sim issues go... I am definitely not in love with the one we have now. I know there is the activity bonus, but I don't know how much of an impact it really has. It seems pretty random. Much less random than Wrassle's engine. I think we could make the activity bonus more effective by using Wrassle's engine and awarding wrasslebucks.

We could maybe even have a lottery or something.

Would there be any possibility of very limited sim matches between Fed X and Wrassle? I'm thinking Wrasslepalooza. That would be pretty epic.

Fats:

Geno, which kind of assurances would you want in place to say we aren't going to close down FedX on a whim?

Thats not a smartass remark, I would like to know what kind of assurance we could give you. Would it be some sort of contract both parties would have to sign? Something different?

Look, I know I can be hardheaded. But, I would not close down FedX over a major blow up between the two of us, let alone on a whim.

We made this offer for the long haul. You guys will have a voice within the EC so you will be in all discussions, including changes to Wrassle or its players or things that could impact Fedx or your players. Nothing is going to come as a surprise.

Genocide:

Yeah, I'm not asking as a dick either... but it kinda already happened once. And this isn't coming from hard feelings, as I wasn't even in Fed X when that happened. But with the people that were, I'm thinking it might be an issue.

Not a contract, so much as a guarantee of 3 month's notice (just a random number) if something was going to happen. Some amount of time where we'd be able to make alternate plans.

Stuntman Colt Calhoun:

You'd be able to make alternative plans.

Even if we put you on Wrassle and you posted pictures of my penis all over the boards...I wouldn't have them close down the fed immediately. It takes a few seconds to masturbate to it first.

Seriously, as I was reading this...all I could think about was what Kiebs had stated...and then he stated it and everyone praised him...and I cried because I thought of it immediately but was too late to the party to say so.

Because I believe that most of you here like the way your sim engine works.

I, for one, enjoy winning from time to time. If I lose every match, it does wear on me. I'm fine losing...even if it was 50 percent of the time. But I can't keep up with the posting numbers of the guys that I would want to work with, so me playing in Fed X would never happen because of the sim engine. I'd have no chance of defeating anyone and having Alan Scott constantly defeat me would make me want to cut my own dick off.

But for those here that are active constantly and post 300 times a week, I see why you wouldn't want to go back to a wrassle engine and lose to a Stuntman Colt Calhoun who would post 5 times a week, but be able to declare a dominance over you.

So the engine would be a huge issue for me if I was a Fed X player.

And I see Mav's point. You build something and mold it into what you have here today...even though the numbers aren't as high as they used to be here in Fed X...it's still a game that has taken a ton of hard work by many and developed into a system that you guys love. A system that, like Wrassle, will go through some changes...but ultimately, a system that is to your liking.

So there are a couple of issue for you guys moving to Wrassle.

Elijah Hasselbank:

Coming from someone that has never dealt with anywhere's sim but here, is it not a possibility to create a kind of mid way sim? Where you can boost it for activity, or by paying (Although, in my personal opinion, I wouldn't pay regularly just to win, when you get a good match either way. And that's what finishing rights are for, right?) so if there was a want for it, BOTH federations could cross over?

Rev. Future:

Lots of things running through my head but I will attempt to group them so this makes some sense to anyone who might read it. I'm happy that this discussion is taking place but I'll be honest... I still don't even know in my own head what the right decision is. Let's start with some certainties...

1. My loyalties lie and always will lie with the shrinking handful of players that I have been with since the beginning. The host of our game never has really been very important for me. That's not to take ANYTHING away from all the hard work that the Powerbase has done to make this a better game. I do appreciate those efforts. But we've been in C Brawls, Cslam, Ring Wars, Gfeds, Wrassle and our own site and the only constant (besides XS sucking) is that I come back time and time again because of the talents of the writers. We could be in a snail mail fed and I would be there if the core group from here was involved. That being said, I haven't voted and will not vote to move if it means Mav is no longer a participant. End of story.

2. The game is dying. We can all have our ideas on why... the popularity of wrestling in general, the availability of other "click and go" games etc. The fact is that it is dying a slow death. Perhaps it is a pendulum and this will be wildly popular again in five years. Personally, I doubt it. The point is, two small sized game sites will certainly die off before one medium sized game. Consolidation will perhaps allow players to play both and might allow both sites not to suffer through inactivity like they both are from time to time right now. I have no doubts that Jeff's ideas are better than any others out there. I have no doubt that they WILL get done. But will there still be any players left? As much as I might have to swallow hard to go back THERE, is it best for the future of what we envision this gaming experience could be?

3. Which brings to my third constant. TRUST. Geno, Chance, Mav, Aaron, Jason and Grayson must all be better people than I am or at least more diplomatic when writing because I am still pissed. I read the wrassle thread about a handful of us breaking away because we thought we could do better and just about put my head through my monitor. We were shut down with no warning. At a time where things were going about as good as they had been in a long time. And the way our two heads (Gray and Mav) were treated made walking away the only option. When I raised this with EC members I was shouted down. I'm not sure I can ever trust those people again.

I'm not writing this to start a he said, she said fight or re-live what happened. I'm just being honest. It was a bitter break-up, one that might be better off served with a few commitments to work together before a full-fledged merger is even discussed. I don't trust anyone from Wrassle that was involved in any way in what went down... and it will take some time before I would be able to trust again. A good start, as someone else mentioned, would be to perhaps acknowledge Fed X's existance.

So what do we do? For certain, I think we open dialogue with Wrassle about working together. Cross fed cards, links to each other on home pages, ideas on how to save the game meetings are all worthwhile. I think we also need to talk amounst ourselves more. I've read a couple of veiled inferences and Colt's clear statement that our sim engine scares people away from the game. We all believe in the activity bonus system... but to what end? Have we and are we still losing potential players because they can't roleplay enough to be on a level playing field? Is that what we set out to do when we went the way of the activity bonus? I'll admit that I sometimes grow tired of not having a shot at beating Eve, Chance or Aaron. How many others feel like Colt and simply can't put in the time to be competitive here? I don't know...


In summary, I'm leaning towards an eventual merger being the best thing for the future of the game. I give a world of credit to Kiebs, Fats and Colt for joining in our conversation. I didn't expect that to happen. But before I would support such a merger, I need the Mav issue resolved and I would need to see a show of faith that Wrassle really wants to work with us to protect the game we all enjoy so much. That would come from continuing dialogue, working together on occassion and listening to our Powerbases ideas. That means more to me than one spot on the EC.

Stan Daniels:

Bear with me because this thought just popped into my head while reading through all the latest responses. This'll be a rough idea and there are those that will be much better at fleshing this out than I, but I think you can get the gist of it.

I think if we jump in right now both sites are missing on a huge opportunity to generate some serious angles out of this. We could set a date, say 1/1/12 and make that an official "merger" date. This would benefit us in several ways:

1. Time. Obviously having about a year gives ample time to hammer out details on what a new engine could look like, time to see everyone is acting in good faith (maybe start towards rebuilding some trust between parties).

2. Activity boosts through cross promotion and themes based on the "merger". Wrasslepalooza, King of Wrestling, BRB, Legacy Inivitational, The One, Sponsor Wars, Stable Wars.. All of these things could happen regardless, but imagine how much more might be involved if there's buzz with a Wrassle/Fed X merger/takeover looming over.

3. I guess this relates to the first point, but it leaves plenty of room for one side or the other or both to say, you know what, this just isn't working out how we thought and there's much less collateral damage of moving one place and back and all that. But, it also gives a firm date to aim towards instead of a general "let's interact more and see how it goes". There's nothing going to be in stone that says we can't slide it up or back, but if we know we'd like to start the new year with a new site/engine/etc it might help keep focused and on task to do so.

Just some random thoughts.

Fats:
Wow, Rev. Not really sure of the what to say since I was one of those members of the EC when everything went down and I am one you clearly don't trust.

But let me say a couple of things. Years ago when FedX was running in Indy I do not remember much of what happened. I was new to the EC and was just the EiC. I was not part of any discussion when FedX shut down, and was not ever let in on what happened. Thats why I keep quiet when that begins to be discussed. I have no knowledge of it therefore cannot comment on it. The only thing I remember about it is that it all happened when he changed from our old layout and engine to a new one. Maverick was the CEO of Wrassle at the time so I believe he would have first hand knowledge of what went down.

Next is when all of the thing with the lottery happened and you guys left. Maverick and myself had a heated exchange and when it was being discussed about formed FedX instead of leaving, I was left out of those discussions so anger didn't cloud either mine or Mavericks judgement. Those discussions were between Burnt and Ice on Wrassle's side and Maverick, Grayson and I beleave Lars but I am not totally sure.

I have heard bits and pieces of those discussions from people from both sides and I have gotten two completely different accounts. I am sure they both seem true in their own eyes but I was not part of it so I cannot comment on it.

What I can comment on is my falling out with Maverick. I was wrong in how I handled the Maverick blow-up. I was stubborn and hardheaded as well as combative. I treated him poorly, especially after he had done so much for Wrassle. I can't take it back. We have spoken and I have apologized. Anyone that knows me knows that those two things rarely happen. I rarely regret anything I do and I rarely apologize for them. I have done both and only hope it can help mend the broken relalationship I have with Mav.

EDIT: I want to add that my conversation with Maverick and the apology I gave him has happened long ago, I think almost a year ago, long before any of this offer to bring FedX over to Wrassle was even a thought.

Pikazap:

Given Wrassle's History and their own way of running things.

Things Never Change.

Egos will always hold ground.

Fats has one.

Burnt has one.

Grayson has one.

Maverick has one.

When things collide and a disagreement happens the people with the powers dominate and the losers move on to better things.

I really can never picture Fed X being a permanent fixture in Wrassle. Though going to wrassle will bring in some new recruits into the Fed X programe which Fed X could use. I don't really see Fed X bringing in much into Wrassle because it's full of people who got fed up of Wrassle's inept politics.

Oh and "Hey, Fats!"

Chance:

I have sat back and watched this chat and pondered things. Like should we go back? Is it the right thing? Can we trust them, and the answer is I don't know. What I do know is the game needs to change. I think that if we find a road back it's better, but it is not something that we can do tomorrow. Trust has to be earned on both sides. Old slights and petty squabbles have to be laid to rest.

I think we should try. Even if they take the ideas and then toss us out on our ear. Then at least we tried. I don't think that is the plan. I don't see the EC as some group of shadowy figures looking to rob us. I see them in the same way as I see Jeff or the rest of the power base. They are all hard headed stubborn passionate people that care.

I think we are more alike then we are different, but at the same time I know we have to try this slowly Rebuild the trust. I think it's worth it. I think a Fed X wrassleplooza WOULD be cool. I think there is a lot we can mine from this. If we take the time, and start putting this together so it will last.

Fats, Doc, Clive, and Colt have been nothing but open and honest. The conversation has been honest, and good. There is work to do, and stumbles to come. Heated debates I'm sure, but in the end I think it is worthwhile

On a side note Rev I would like to beat Eve too. She came back out of nowhere to beat me for the second time with no bonus. I was a full 6 and blew it....

Maverick:

Rev brings up several good points....and No my old friend, It's not just you.

When I read people spouting off about us leaving and having no clue as to why...it makes me very upset.

However....years spent with Jeff and him always being that little voice in my head curb the way I respond or make me not address it at all.

As for when the original incarnation of FED X was closed, I was CEO but I had nothing to do with Indy Wrassle. That was solely with burnt and Hawg. While I was in Fed X with Storm, My CEO/Commish duties kept me far to tied up in Wrassle and I eventually had to step back from FED X. I wasn't even aware of most of the dealings till afterward. Truth be told, It was one of the underlying reasons I stepped down as CEO and it played a small part in my choice to leave with Jeff and restart Fed X.

As for Philly, While I commend Philly for trying to take all the blame it certainly wasn't all him. Everyone knows I can be a real ass when I want to be so suffice to say shit got flung both ways. We talked, Apologies changed hands....and I'm good with Philly...so let's make this real clear.....Philly has nothing to do with my reasons for not wanting to go back to Wrassle.

Another point Rev makes is an inescapable truth.....Our game is dying and we are a dying breed. While a merger would bolster all of us overall, it won't solve the problem. This may come across as sounding a bit brash for the younger set but it's not meant to, it's just fact. Look at the people playing in Fed X, Jeff, Randy, Geno, Eric, Rev, Mike, And J just to name a few currents. Look at the guys from our past who have come and go, Guys from the past like OV, Lars, Emissary, Brad and the like. What is the one thing we all have in common? Around 10 PLUS years playing this game.

Now while there are those who would join and play today...(The newer generation), it's not what it used to be like back in Cslam when we had tons of people or even in Wrassle's big day when we had 3 Nationals and a ton of regionals.......all of which were active.

Blame it on Iphone apps, Facebook games, the decline in wrestling, it doesn't matter....we are in a decline. Can we do something about it? Maybe...maybe not.

How does it relate to the merger? While I would love to see a return to the glory days of uber activity and rosters of 30 plus people.....I feel that this has to be taken very very slowly.

This is why I say NO to a merger but YES to us working together. Why? it's all about babysteps. What if we just pack up and head over to Wrassle tommorrow....then a month from now, something happens? Both sides having even the slightest mistrust issues and BANG! it could blow up and we'd be right back where we started from.....and that would benefit no one.

A working relationship could however get us off on the right foot. Give us all time to get use to each other....plus it could have other benefits. For instant, Guys from Fed X might take up Wrassle again to fued with someone so that when we run a cross promotional event they'd have heat. Same could be said for the people in Wrassle. It might not give us new players persey but it would give all of us new and fresh activity.

I will go as far as to say this....with the overtures Philly is making along with SCC and Kiebs, I'm inclined to allow my "What are they REALLY up to" Feelings to easy back a little. I'll be very interested to see what Burnt has to say about all this.

Oh....and as for what Pika had to say, he's right to a degree....we all have Egos...every last one of us....but Ego had no bearing in the reason we left wrassle. You can take that myth and shelve it. It was about ethics, customer service, and the stagant directionless course of the game wrassle was taking (or moreso, there lack of desire to evolve into something better) It was about a vision of something more and the desire to make it better.....EGO had nothing to do with it. Ego didn't keep me on the phone long distance to Canada with Burnt and Jeff for over 72 hours when we tried to broker the original deal to bring Fed X to wrassle.

To close I want to say this...I see no benefit from a merger at this time. I don't care about newsboards or forums, or PM's....we have all that here (or soon to be that other place) now. I think jumping to early would be like taking a boat ride on the Titanic....doomed to failure.....but as I have said, and like Rev said, My loyalties lie with the handful of people I play here in Fed X with and moreso, Jeff. I'll go along with whatever they and HE decides to do.

Colt Calhoun:

Mav...what if...and it's a BIG if....

I offered handjobs?

Nate Daniels:

You gonna use that lotion that tingles?

I'll bring the midgets.

Chance:

I'm sold

Grayson:

Dr Kiebler wrote:Is there technically any reason why you guys just couldn't use your sim even if you did go to Wrassle?

None at all. Having said that, it's easy enough to factor in. As XS mentioned and well remembers, when we were in Indy before, we simply structured bonus' money weekly based on activity. So it reflected in much the same way our current sim does. If we decided to go to Indy again, there wouldn't be a good reason to not work with the Wrassle sim as it is now.

Dr Kiebler wrote:
I like that you guys have a sim that takes activity into account and that you're actually making the effort to improve it (something that Wrassle's Sim is loooooong overdue for). If anything would hold me back from wanting to move it would be abandoning it.

I want to be clear with everyone, because I'm not sure I'm being clear enough.

When I talk about upgrades and improvements the game (ours or Wrassle's) needs, the sim is only a small component of it. I've always felt that the gaming experience was shallow and generic beyond the roleplay, quickly eliminating anyone save a hardcore nucleus of creative writers from longterm engagement.

Yes, things are in the works.....SLOWLY DAMMIT!! (ARGHH!).....for improvements to our sim. These changes are being done to set up bigger, and more engaging changes to the game as a whole.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Grayson:

Fats wrote:
I will also discuss with Burnt the option of getting rid of the ATM if noone is using it any more.

Colt and I have discussed this, but this may be the first time I've stated it publicly. I can't remember. I have nothing againt revenue generating systems. BUT....the current one used undermines the integrity of the game in my opinion (there are a LOT of USOB champions I laugh at, because I know that clicking a button isn't an accomplishment.) And it shows a lack of creative vision. I can think of a dozen worthwhile features I would pay for a PREMIUM Extreme membership to get access to, and none of them involve anything that would unbalance the sim.

Regardless of what happens with this thread, all future development with IceHawg should consider that as part ofthe objective. Game experience enhcancement should get paid for. Game advantage shouldn't.

That's just my opinion of course

Colt Calhoun:

There was a new EXTREME experience that Wrassle was going to do...but without Icehawg, all plans were put on the side for like 10 years now.

Grayson:

Genocide wrote:As far as the sim issues go... I am definitely not in love with the one we have now. I know there is the activity bonus, but I don't know how much of an impact it really has.

That depends on your opponent's activity bonus, and the type of match you're simming, and the type of wrestler you play. Potentially.....LOTS. Or none.

It's a VERY basic system, that allows activity to be the largest impacting factor in most matches. But it doesn't mean you can't be upset. This past week, skipping the reasons.....the odds of Alan winning each of the 8 matches initiated in my title defense against XS were 70%. I still managed to lose the match. But that's an upset, and the game SHOULD have upsets I think Geno. I think guys like Rev or Colt (although not against Alan, because Alan OWNS Colt with his 1-0 no show record) should have a chance to win a match, even if they only got up 6 posts last week. And I think the chance is something that doesn't reflect enough on the Wrassle engine, despite its complexities.

A guy who (in the past) dropped 60K into his stats this month isn't going to lose 6 of 8 matches against the guy who dropped 10k.

Contrary to you Geno, I see that as a problem. Why bother with the match? Unless you're the jobber king......who wants to go into matches knowing they can't win? It may seem that way in our situation as well, but XS's new World Title says otherwise. I think that's a good thing.

Genocide wrote: I think we could make the activity bonus more effective by using Wrassle's engine and awarding wrasslebucks.

Easily. Its what we did before.